[*BCM*] NYC [Fwd: A(n important) triviality?]

[Anne Wolfe]

You're missing my point.  I'm not talking about whether or not these people should have been arrested - I don't think they should have. What I'm talking about is whether or not you're going to get the ACLU to donate their services, and I'm saying they won't.  You might find a bike friendly lawyer to take on these individual cases, but not able to sucessfullyl take on the current system.  I presume by the Bill of Rights, you mean the first amendments freedoms of assembly and freedom of speech.  These sorts of speech get regulated all the time, and so long as it is content neutral and satisfies a certain level of legitmate state interest, then that is permitted.  Here, the state has justified these regulations for permitting etc on the grounds of public safety.  The laws aren't going to overturned consequently.
 
The fact that the cops are ignoring public safety isn't going to trump this to get the laws overturned.  Cops do dangerous things all the time, from firing guns to riding into groups to break up demonstrations that are breaking the law, etc etc.  How do you know there's no emergency happening when a fire truck and ambulence go through?  Riding into the group to break up a non-permitted parade is accepted practice.  As for undercover turning them onto freeways and one way streets, if CM is going to be law abiding, then they don't have to follow these guys.  Which would keep the cops from winning.
 
What you call a false presumption regarding the legitimate state interest is in fact a correct presumption.  The state interest to justify the law has zero, zip, nada to do with how long CM has been conducting rides.  It is a question of whether or not the underlying law is legitmate.  They apply it against CM, they apply it against other people.  This is how the law gets analyzed, and they won't analyze CM's safety record.  And the fact that CM does ride through red lights, etc (for whatever reason) won't help them.  Picture the logic: "The state has no legitmate state interest in regulating us or anyone else for public safety because we've never had an injury.  But we do ride through red lights on occasion, which might cause injury to other people in cars, etc who aren't part of the group."
 
The NYPD are arresting people for parading without a permit.  That's the law you've got to get overthrown for this to stop happening.  Or else you've got to comply with the law.  Defy it sure, that's what civil disobedience is all about.  But civil disobedience is also about taking the consequences to draw attention to how stupid you think the law is.  Go for it.

Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org> wrote:
> ... you'd be hard pressed not to call it a parade.

=v= What's relevant here is New York City law. This law defines
a parade as something requiring a permit. Another subsection
of the same section of law defines a demonstration and makes no
mention of permits. The idea has something to do with the Bill
of Rights. Remember that thing? It's supposedly important.

> In the interests of public safety the cities have seen fit to
> regulate it ...

=v= Let me be blunt here: you clearly don't know what's going
on for real in NYC. The behavior of the NYPD in this regard
have no relationship to the interests of public safety.
Piloting motorcycles into groups of demonstrators is not safe.
Using undercover cops to attempt to direct bicyclists onto
freeways and the wrong way on one-way streets is not safe.
Sending fire engines and ambulances through Critical Mass when
there's no emergency happening is not safe.

=v= Critical Mass in NYC has been going on for almost 12 years
without even a single injury. There is no public safety issue.

> ... the inconvenience of some people at having traffic blocked
> and the safety issues of people running red lights etc is
> considered a legitimate state interest.

=v= False presumption. CM and other demonstration rides can
occur without these going on. The NYPD arrest people anyway.
<_Jym_>
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