[*BCM*] riding

[Lee Peters]

Turtle, you are such a trooper to engage in the dialogue, thanks.

>> It is shocking that enforcement of this kind costs money, when the
>> punishment is a fine.  Double, or triple the fines until you can afford 
>> it
>> or don't need to do it.
>
> An intersting proposal.  Problem is it unfairly targets poor people, who
> will be really harmed by a large monetary fine, while the rich can just
> shrug it off.

So the poor will stop this lousy behaviour more quickly, no? Quadruple!

>> It is relative.  It would not be called 'special' in Europe.  It is more
>> integrated.
>
> I'm not sure what you are getting at here.  There are plenty of
> dedicated bike lanes and paths in Europe.  That's what I mean by
> "special", as opposed to including bicycles as part of normal traffic.

If a dedicated bike lane next to every street is the norm, then it is no 
longer special.   People often claim to not ride because they feel unsafe. 
Well, space & a stripe could be the way to make them feel ok next to the 
speeding car.

>> I don't know how to make people nicer, does anybody?
>
  Making sure they are not crowded
> into a tiny space with hundreds or thousands of other people is another
> one.  Allowing them access to lots of beautiful nature is yet another.

Well, yes, but this is the mentality that is instrumental in producing 
suburbs.  Good design will have people living close together with all that 
they need to be socially active or private, and in touch with nature.  All 
of these are achievable without overturning farmland or cutting down trees. 
The bicycle is a big part of this and so is good design.  (IMHO Cities are 
the future)

> I agree that good road design is important.  But good road design to me,
> as a cyclist is a nice clean, with a relatively flat and level surface
> that is wide enough to allow faster traffic to pass at least
> occasionally, and that has some clear indication of right of way,
> especially at intersections.  Anything more than that seems a waste to
> me.  This is the kind of road I grew up riding on, and it worked
> extremely well for me and seemed to work quite well for others.

Okey dokey.

> -Turtle
>