[BCM] Boston PD no friend of a cyclist

Wed Jun 28 13:08:52 EDT 2006

A few misguided comments that need clarification:

  >"if you go into a situation looking for a fight, that's generally what you're 
going to get.  And indeed, that's what Jon got."<

  I did not approach the cop looking for a fight.  I approached the cop as a way to avoid a fight with the guy in the pickup.  The cop was unwilling to help me because of his prejudice against messengers.  It is only after the cop's unwillingness to hear me that I became angry at him.

  > ...he insulted the cop further by saying "oh, if I was a
public servant, I wouldn't be a stupid cop like you, I'd be a fire
fighter" thus implying that cops are worse than fire fighters to a guy
currently serving as a cop and then being shocked I tell you
when the guy he's already insulted, sworn at and demeaned tells him 
that his civil service job of choice is not so great. Not to mention that
there was really nothing possible to be gained by saying to the guy
"When I grow up, I wanna be a fire fighter."  Jeez, dude, I wanna be an
astronaut, but I keep it out of most of my conversations with anyone
aged over 4. <

  You have truly misconstrued the story here... The cop was taunting me, saying that his job is very difficult and that I should try being a cop just to see how difficult it is.  My replies were that I did not want to be a public servant, but if I were to be one it would be a fire fighter (because it runs in the family).  At the time it was a strange tangent to be on at the time, and I don't think the cop interpreted it as "police officers are lower than fire fighters".  Anyway, the whole point of mentioning any of that was to share with all of you reading this, that the cop clearly believes that he is overworked and that justifies his misbehavior.  --- On a side note, I happen to know 2 lovely old ladies that direct traffic every school day rain or shine, and they never complain about their jobs.  This cop is essentially a crossing guard every day of the week... perhaps on weekends he is out fighting crime... who knows.

  Lastly,
  This part of Anne's reply was particularly... um.....  (lets read it again)

  >And *now* Jon's current response is to apologize for Jon's actions.
Which I think is actually a really cool thought, and might even inspire
the other party further.  Except of course:
1) Jon's already vented here, naming the guy and telling everyone to be
on the lookout for him, and where he is.  That's a very sincere apology
Jon.  Make sure you apologize the next time you yell fire in a crowded
movie theatre too, eh? Because it really shows what a deep, sincere guy
who regrets his actions you are.
And
2) Wants to get a group of his mates to go with him too apologize.
Because that's not confrontational in the slightest, and shows how
sincere Jon truly is.  That's not only escalating the situation, that's
total horse puckey.  If you're actually apologizing, you don't need
strength in numbers, just sincerity.  But no, gotta go insult the guy
further whilst pretending to apologize.<

  ok... part 1: 
  Why exactly is it a bad idea for me to warn other cyclists that there is a prejudiced cop against cyclists in Boston?  As a community we should communicate about things we should avoid (or at least be aware of).  I am assuming that you feel that my apology would be insincere or 'pretend'.  That is not true.  I can apologize for MY poor language to him that morning, but that doesn't change how I feel about him.  An apology to him would make me feel better about how I acted towards him.  Hopefully by starting off with an apology, he will listen when I tell him that I am offended by his actions.  you know...catch flies with honey than shit...

  part 2:
  horse puckey aside, it is a good way to show this cop that there is a community that cares about how he reacts to cyclists.  If all he sees all day (according to him) is cyclists that have no regard, then we should show him that he is wrong.  If a group of calm rational cyclists confronted him in a meaningful way, he might think twice next time.

  - Jon

  btw, Anne is there a problem here?  your message seems awfully agitated. 

Anne Wolfe <axw at michelmores.com> wrote:
  Of course there is more anger directed at the cop. This list hates
drivers - that's understood. But what they really hate more than
drivers is anyone in authority. Like, say, an underpaid non-bike riding
cop who suddenly has someone in his face calling him names and is
expected to have the nounce to then go after the other guy who isn't
calling him names or doing anything else. Yeah, the driver was in the
wrong. Which is why Jon acted like a jerk to him. Which is what got the
cop involved in the first place. But as previously noted, if you go
into a situation looking for a fight, that's generally what you're going
to get. And indeed, that's what Jon got. And then having been a jerk,
and sworn, and been established as a jerk by the fact he did the same at
the car driver, he insulted the cop further by saying "oh, if I was a
public servant, I wouldn't be a stupid cop like you, I'd be a fire
fighter" thus implying that cops are worse than fire fighters to a guy
currently serving as a cop and then being shocked SHOCKED I tell you
when the guy he's already insulted, sworn at and demeaned tells him that
his civil service job of choice is not so great. Not to mention that
there was really nothing possible to be gained by saying to the guy
"When I grow up, I wanna be a fire fighter." Jeez, dude, I wanna be an
astronaut, but I keep it out of most of my conversations with anyone
aged over 4. 

And *now* Jon's current response is to apologize for Jon's actions.
Which I think is actually a really cool thought, and might even inspire
the other party further. Except of course:
1) Jon's already vented here, naming the guy and telling everyone to be
on the lookout for him, and where he is. That's a very sincere apology
Jon. Make sure you apologize the next time you yell fire in a crowded
movie theatre too, eh? Because it really shows what a deep, sincere guy
who regrets his actions you are.
And
2) Wants to get a group of his mates to go with him too apologize.
Because that's not confrontational in the slightest, and shows how
sincere Jon truly is. That's not only escalating the situation, that's
total horse puckey. If you're actually apologizing, you don't need
strength in numbers, just sincerity. But no, gotta go insult the guy
further whilst pretending to apologize.

In the meantime, I'm amazed no one has mentioned this........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5119826.stm
Positive news for a change. But nah, everyone'd rather deal with Jon
being an admitted idiot and pushing the boundary further.

As for whether or not Jon would be taken seriously if he complained, he
probably would. The procedures get followed. Except of course that
when you act like a belligerent jerk and then complain that the other
guy is doing so, the words "time wasting loon" just get marked on your
file, and priority will be given to the other complaints out there where
people behave in a civilised fashion and still get treated poorly. 

-----Original Message-----
From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
Corinna Baksik
Sent: 28 June 2006 14:12
To: Boston Critical Mass
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Boston PD no friend of a cyclist

It's interesting how there appears to be more anger directed at the
police officer than at the driver who caused the incident in the first
place.

I have always felt that calling a policeman by the term bandied out on
this list is as offensive as using racial slurs. For every jerk cop,
there are also cops actually helping people, risking their lives, and
some dying in the course of duty. Just as for every asshole cyclist,
there are those of us who try not to be jerks - who yield when
appropriate and who stop for pedestrians.

corinna

On 6/27/06, Pete Stidman 
wrote:
> I just wrote to Jon off list. And since then I got madder.
>
> I'm really as pissed off as I possibly can be that anyone would even 
> suggest that using any words would negate this cops total
belligerence.
>
> LET"S NOT FORGET THAT PEOPLE GET KILLED OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!
>
> Need I say fucking more? I just got another fucking bike/car death 
> notice today from out of town. And I'm tired of people wimping out and

> not following through when ANY opportunity for changing the climate on

> the roads out there presents itself.
>
> That guy turned himself into a fucking pig when he ignored a situation

> that could've killed somebody.
>
> Jon was right to call him that. Anybody with any sense would have made

> the same deduction. A cop is not above reproach!
>
> Call who needs to be called, call me if they ignore you. Do I need to 
> send you a list of the names of the dead just in this city alone? huh?

> wake the fuck up! WE HAVE A RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE ON THE STREETS!!!!
>
> -Pete
>
>
>
>
>
> Ian Westcott wrote:
> Jon,
>
> I agree with Jym and Robotica. While your words could have been chosen

> more carefully, the officer was in the wrong in the first place by not

> treating you with respect and concern for your situation. I think your

> idea to bring a group of people with you tomorrow morning could easily

> be misconstrued and get out of hand, and I would advise against it. 
> But by all means, call the precinct, write to the Globe, and make sure

> people know about what happened. (Maybe just replace the words 
> "fucking pig" with "> deleted>").
>
> -Ian
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jon Ramos wrote:
>
> A thought,
> 
> Would anyone like to meet at the location tomorrow morning? I should 
> take the higher road and give him an apology... and ask for one in 
> return. I am looking for a civil confrontation only, NOT fuel on the
fire.
> 
> I would like to have a show of support from the bike community so that

> he can see that his actions affect many of us. Anyone with me? He is

> there at 8:00 am directing traffic at the intersection at Summer St 
> and Purchase St in downtown.
> 
> Since my language to the officer will prevent my complaint from being 
> heard, this would be a good way to get through to at least one 
> person. let me know if you are interested.
> - Jon
>
> Jon Ramos wrote:
>
> d.
> 
> I agree, my choice of words was indeed so poor that it is likely that 
> my story wouldn't be taken seriously. I was acting like an asshole 
> just as much as the cop... or almost as much. Looking back, I 
> shouldn't have said all that and I can only blame myself. At the 
> moment I was sooo angry I just lost it. I am not usually one who gets

> that infuriated but even now (5 hours later I am still heated).
> 
> I mostly wanted to share with the BCM list as a means to vent out, and

> I suppose to give warning.
> 
> - Jon
>
> One thing I did forget to mention that further annoyed me... When the 
> cop was moaning about how tough his job is, and that I should file to 
> become a cop if I thought I could do better. I said that I didn't 
> want to be a cop, which is why I am not a cop, and that if I were to 
> be a public servant I would be a fire fighter. (yes this is off the 
> point, but it did get said) His reply was something to the effect 
> of: fire figerters are lazy and just sit around the station all day, 
> and that their job is easy. This just pissed me off because I have 
> good friends that are fire fighters and their jobs are not easy. I 
> only bring this up because I have a lot of respect for fire fighters.
>
>
> Dan Barrett wrote:
> > I suggest filing the report and then calling the Mayor's office of 
> > Neighborhood services to follow up. The Mayor is the only way to get

> > a thing done in this town, but you have to go through the regular 
> > rigamorale to get there. I would also call the police captain for 
> > that police district personally.
>
>
> Did I read Jon's account incorrectly, or did he call the cop a 
> "fucking pig?" If he really did, I wouldn't bother following up with 
> anything; the entire episode is tainted by his choice of words.
>
> d.
>
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