[*BCM*] Re: Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 34, Issue 28
ian schwartz
hankpiece at gmail.com
Mon Apr 9 10:38:58 EDT 2007
Look we all run red lights, but let's not seriously kid ourselves
about the ramifications. We can whine about how much easier it is to
be safe running a red light on a bike, but anybody who has ever driven
a car has sat at a small intersection with no cars coming from either
direction and waited for the light to turn green.
There's nothing wrong with the current set of laws except that a lot
of cyclists and most drivers and policemen are completely uneducated
about them. I was in the car with my friend (who often rides a bike)
trying to make a righthand turn when a BMX rider shot off the sidewalk
and across the crosswalk. My friend muttered something about how Don't
Walk signs apply to cyclists too, and I was like "whaaa?" He was
surprised as I explained that the cyclist should never have been on
the sidewalk, but also that the green traffic light was what applied,
not the don't walk sign.
I like going the wrong way too, but if they were to start enforcing
and educating about those laws, it would be a lot safer for everybody.
On 4/9/07, bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org
<bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. It's not about laws (tstrong at riseup.net)
> 2. Re: gordon riker (. nevele)
> 3. message blocked: Your Message Was Blocked (emailabuse at mecnet.net)
> 4. Re: gordon riker (casey engels)
> 5. My Thoughts - Cycling Culture (Michael Dombrowski)
> 6. RE: Bike Law. (Jim Leonard)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 09:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: tstrong at riseup.net
> Subject: [*BCM*] It's not about laws
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <3063.127.0.0.1.1176051142.squirrel at tern.riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I want to put out here that the problem is not just about laws and who
> follows them or enforces them. It's about people trying to get from point
> A to point B in the quickest way possible via roads that can't handle the
> amount of traffic that travels on them everyday. How many here have
> witnessed someone completely out of their minds because they're late for
> work after sitting in miles of traffic jams? How many have witnessed just
> plain rudeness of people cutting people off just so they can get the
> advantage of being up one more place in the line of traffic. It's like
> watching a bunch of elementary school kids fighting and shoving over who
> cut in the line--except it's adults who are fighting over who can make the
> light before it turns red. I wouldn't trust someone in that frame of mind
> to both see me and give me right of way. Do I really want to go out on
> the streets every day as an experiment on how many close calls I can
> avoid--especially when I am outnumbered and outweighed by thousands of
> cars operated by irate, frustrated drivers?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:50:52 -0400
> From: ". nevele" <symboliceon at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <BAY139-F11538FF6FAA6A569EF5D96A7590 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> yea. two of my friends knew him.
>
> they knew him as a pretty atrocious cyclist.
>
> not that any of you actually give a shit. most of you seem to be looking at
> his death as an excuse to paint a bike white.
>
> my friends actually knew him; knew that he biked like an asshole. think
> they're happy about him dying? fuck no.
>
> how are you people treating this? you're using it as an example that you
> don't understand.
>
> like i said: we need to come up with our own laws that make sense for folks
> on bikes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Lee Peters" <leepeters at gis.net>
> >Reply-To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:59:18 -0400
> >
> >B -
> >
> >Yesterday I picked up a donated bike to honor him. I painted it & have a
> >lock ready. I plan to take it down to the site and lock it to a light pole
> >at 5 pm today (Sunday 4/8).
> >
> >Best,
> >Lee
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooksie Edmondson"
> ><brooksie at honestinsecret.com>
> >To: <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:14 AM
> >Subject: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> >
> >
> >>has a ghost bike been placed for gordon yet? i don't know who to get in
> >>touch with, but i have an extra bike that i can donate if they need one.
> >>gordon was my friend.
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> >>list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >>http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> >>To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> >list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> >To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:51:29 -0400
> From: emailabuse at mecnet.net
> Subject: [*BCM*] message blocked: Your Message Was Blocked
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
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> From: ". nevele" <symboliceon at hotmail.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:50:52 -0400
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>
> yea. two of my friends knew him.
>
> they knew him as a pretty atrocious cyclist.
>
> not that any of you actually give a shit. most of you seem to be looking at
> his death as an excuse to paint a bike white.
>
> my friends actually knew him; knew that he biked like an asshole. think
> they're happy about him dying? fuck no.
>
> how are you people treating this? you're using it as an example that you
> don't understand.
>
> like i said: we need to come up with our own laws that make sense for folks
> on bikes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Lee Peters" <leepeters at gis.net>
> >Reply-To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:59:18 -0400
> >
> >B -
> >
> >Yesterday I picked up a donated bike to honor him. I painted it & have a
> >lock ready. I plan to take it down to the site and lock it to a light pole
> >at 5 pm today (Sunday 4/8).
> >
> >Best,
> >Lee
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooksie Edmondson"
> ><brooksie at honestinsecret.com>
> >To: <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:14 AM
> >Subject: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> >
> >
> >>has a ghost bike been placed for gordon yet? i don't know who to get in
> >>touch with, but i have an extra bike that i can donate if they need one.
> >>gordon was my friend.
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> >>list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >>http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> >>To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> >list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> >To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Can't afford to quit your job? – Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in 1
> year.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:20:36 -0400
> From: "casey engels" <caseyengels at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID:
> <2481d8c80704090620l33151864v20ac0e0de30ef713 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> i understand that anytime we lose a friend for completely random and
> horrible reasons, it is difficult beyond belief, words, and explanation.
> there is nothing that can really be said to combat or alleviate this kind of
> loss - for individuals or a community.
>
> however, i believe that this forum has brought up some really interesting
> topics for bicyclists in boston & most people on the list have done a great
> job of looking towards positive and productive change. i am new to the
> list, action-wise, and hope to see more of the suggestions for good
> work/laws/maps/anything for making biking inviting and in-plain-sight for
> people in this city.
>
> i appreciate all of the work, thoughts, actions that each person
> contributing to this list, critical mass, and bicycle awareness in general
> has brought to the front and center of everyone's minds this past week or
> so. (save the random guy a few strings ago who clearly shouldn't be on the
> list - writing about the right to open his door whenever he wants into a
> bike lane).
>
> i did not know gordon riker, but my heart & thoughts are still with everyone
> who did. for the rest of us, be safe and keep working to create positive
> awareness for all of us.
>
> .casey.
>
>
>
> On 4/9/07, . nevele <symboliceon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > yea. two of my friends knew him.
> >
> > they knew him as a pretty atrocious cyclist.
> >
> > not that any of you actually give a shit. most of you seem to be looking
> > at
> > his death as an excuse to paint a bike white.
> >
> > my friends actually knew him; knew that he biked like an asshole. think
> > they're happy about him dying? fuck no.
> >
> > how are you people treating this? you're using it as an example that you
> > don't understand.
> >
> > like i said: we need to come up with our own laws that make sense for
> > folks
> > on bikes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Lee Peters" <leepeters at gis.net>
> > >Reply-To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > >To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> > >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:59:18 -0400
> > >
> > >B -
> > >
> > >Yesterday I picked up a donated bike to honor him. I painted it & have a
> > >lock ready. I plan to take it down to the site and lock it to a light
> > pole
> > >at 5 pm today (Sunday 4/8).
> > >
> > >Best,
> > >Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooksie Edmondson"
> > ><brooksie at honestinsecret.com>
> > >To: <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:14 AM
> > >Subject: [*BCM*] gordon riker
> > >
> > >
> > >>has a ghost bike been placed for gordon yet? i don't know who to get in
> > >>touch with, but i have an extra bike that i can donate if they need
> > one.
> > >>gordon was my friend.
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > >>list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > >>http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > >>To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > >list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > >http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > >To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Can't afford to quit your job? – Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in
> > 1
> > year.
> >
> > http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:15:54 -0400
> From: Michael Dombrowski <legodude at hammycorp.com>
> Subject: [*BCM*] My Thoughts - Cycling Culture
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <461A4A9A.4090909 at hammycorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi All,
> I would like to start off by saying that these are just my personal
> observations, and I make no claim as to their veracity, or that there is
> any hard evidence supporting them. I started cycling seven years ago,
> first in high school and continuing through college so my perceptions
> are really only of young people, I don't necessarily think what I write
> would apply to the 45yr old commuting to work every day.
>
> I think others have done a very good job of bringing up many of the
> difficulties facing us as cyclists - bad drivers, bad laws, bad roads,
> etc - and I don't disagree at all that these are very real problems.
> However, I also think there is a side of cycling that has been not
> addressed so directly: cycling culture is not based around safety as a
> paramount goal, and is often hypocritical in its condemnation of drivers
> and traffic laws.
>
> Just as driving like an jerk is fun, biking like a jerk is fun. We have
> these sexy machines with good handling, good acceleration, and an
> intimate coupling with the rider and use them on often
> dangerous/challenging roads. But whereas driving like a jerk is very
> hard to rationalize, biking like a jerk is easy to rationalize, and is
> even celebrated by cycling culture. We tell ourselves that we can weave
> in and out of traffic, ride the wrong way on streets, that we can blow
> through stop signs and stop lights, that we don't need to signal our
> intentions to drivers, etc. I see the stereotypical bike messenger (a la
> "Lucas Brunelle") - fixed gear, no helmet, weaving in and out of traffic
> with no regard for laws - as having set the tone for urban cycling.
> Combine this with the other positive aspects of cycling -
> environmentally friendly, exercising, etc - and it produces as sense of
> entitlement which is frankly dangerous. Even if we don't cycle like
> madmen, it is simply not cool to ride in what I consider a safe and
> courteous manner.
>
> At the end of the day, the only thing we can change for sure is our own
> behavior: laws may never get changed, drivers may always be jerks, etc,
> but we can individually ride safer. Just as a couple bad drivers color
> our view of all drivers, a couple bad cyclists make all cyclists look
> bad; every time one of us rides dangerously it has an effect on all of us.
>
> thanks for reading and please let me know your thoughts
> be safe,
> mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jim Leonard <vleonard at infinet.com>
> Subject: RE: [*BCM*] Bike Law.
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0704090942460.22841 at shell.core.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN
>
> nevele:
>
> You're pushing that new laws should be put into place for cyclists in this
> message and others (and being much of a jerk about how you're saying it
> too, but this is the last time I'm going to bring this up). My concern is
> that you say you think something should be changed because it's a) more
> convenient for cyclists in almost all cases and b) it's safer for cyclists
> in these specific special cases. What you're failing to point out is that
> in many other specific cases it can become far more dangerous.
>
> In regards to running red lights. I will agree that if you know the
> intersection well and have perfect visibility for all potential incoming
> traffic then yes, running the light when traffic is clear provides
> significant safety in that you aren't dealing with getting up to speed
> with auto traffic doing the same all while the space becomes much narrowed
> by the end of the intersection with cars parked on the right and opposing
> traffic waiting to make a left as far left as possible and often even to
> the left of center. By being ahead of the auto traffic you force the
> autos to pass you at a much safer time. However the two ifs I stated are
> pretty big ifs that only apply part of the time. The law should apply all
> of the time with maybe a few well noted (and marked) exceptions. I should
> not have to read a sign saying which of 30 laws I'm supposed to follow at
> each intersection (or worse, know which of 30 laws I'm supposed to follow
> at each intersection which is why a well written law that has or makes
> specific exceptions requires that there be good signage around the
> exceptions) A safer alternative imho (and within existing law) is to queue
> up with cars waiting at a light and take your lane through the
> intersection and let the autos pass once you're through. As to the
> intersection you're describing, if it's the one I think it is, it's a
> dangerous intersection for cars too and should be reworked. The problem
> is that if it were to actually be made safe, it would either take redoing
> the area around the intersection which would be prohibitively expensive or
> it would drastically reduce traffic throughput which people who drive
> through there every day would not put up with so the city is kind of stuck
> (one intersection isn't going to change much but if the city/state made a
> policy of making the roads safe at the expense of significant reduction of
> auto traffic thoughput, the current voting population would throw them out
> at the earliest convenience or sooner.
>
> Regarding giving your name and address to an officer, per MGL yes you do
> have to give the (correct) information if asked. The officer can't
> require ID (in this state, but that's not the case in others and has been
> upheld in federal courts). Failure to provide this information will turn
> a ticketable offence into an arrestable offence. The requesting officer
> does have to have reason to ask but you're only legally allowed to
> question an officer's demands in court after the fact, not while the
> officer is making his demands.
>
> your other two laws, I have less to comment on. I don't know whether
> state or local ordinances take precedence for traffic laws in this state
> (In some states like NY it depends on the size of the city making the
> laws!). But I will say that passing on the right is dangerous and in
> general the law gives you a significant leeway to avoid immediate
> dangerous situations.
>
> --jim
>
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007, . nevele wrote:
>
> > i'd like to note that a few of the laws listed at massbike.com are from the
> > boston transportation department. the first - and hopefully last - time i
> > was doored it was by a BTD car. so they can suck my balls. "Do not cross
> > stop line when traffic signal is red." -BTD. i'm pretty good about that..
> > but when you're on a bike you've got a shit-ton more visability than anyone
> > in a car and as a matter of survival have a better idea of everything else
> > around you. at red lights i stop, i look around, and i go if it's an option.
> > most of the time it actually works out to be safer that way. example: the
> > light by the Model where brighton ave splits off in to cambridge st. and no.
> > beacon. i take no. beacon.. if i were to wait for the light to turn green,
> > i'd be in the way of merging traffic when it does. that's NOT my safest bet.
> > i also check side mirrors before opening doors when i happen to be in a
> > car..
> >
> > "Ride on the right side of the road, with the flow of traffic." -BTD again.
> > this completely contradicts MGL. you ride on the right side of the road when
> > traffic is moving faster than you, you move over to the left when it's not.
> >
> > "Do not pass on the right of cars turning right." -random. yea, because
> > drivers are always so damn astute that they always use turn signals. no. for
> > someone who is experienced in riding in the city it's easy to tell when a
> > car is about to turn if they're not using their signal.. for someone who
> > isn't it's a dangerous situation.
> >
> > "You must give your name and address when asked by a police officer." -MGL.
> > Ohhhh really!? i'm pretty sure we're not living in 1984 just yet. there's
> > more to that law that massbike didn't mention. look it up.
> >
> > my point??
> >
> > we need a new set of laws for cyclists that actually makes sense. there's NO
> > point in taking the local driver's test and trying to apply that to people
> > riding bikes. "Two wheels or four, the law is the same." uhhh, no. no it
> > isn't. it's a completely different situation for cyclists. we need to be
> > taken seriously by motorists, but that doesn't mean that we need to follow
> > the same laws that they don't even follow half of the time, particularly
> > when said laws put us in harms way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Watson" <david at massbike.org>
> > >Reply-To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > >To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > >Subject: RE: [*BCM*] List of dangerous streets
> > >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:01:22 -0400
> > >
> > >MassBike does in fact offer classes on how to ride safely in traffic; more
> > >than 200 people signed up last year. We're putting together the spring
> > >schedule now, and revamping our curriculum a bit, but the info will be up
> > >soon at http://www.massbike.org/skills/classes.htm. We also have some tips
> > >online at http://www.massbike.org/skills/traffic.htm. We've also got a
> > >pamphlet online that looks at the law from both a bicyclist and motorist
> > >perspective: http://www.massbike.org/info/roadhog.pdf. One of the goals of
> > >the Bicyclist Safety Bill is to make the law even more clear about how cars
> > >should interact with bikes.
> > >
> > >-David
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > >[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org]On Behalf Of
> > >Andrew Toomajian
> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:31 AM
> > > To: Boston Critical Mass
> > > Subject: RE: [*BCM*] List of dangerous streets
> > >
> > >
> > > I think it might be more productive to focus on "best" routes rather
> > >than
> > >which streets are dangerous and why. The SF Bike coalition, for example,
> > >makes a map of bike routes through the city avoiding it's major hills. It
> > >would be a great project to do this for Boston, with the goal of avoiding
> > >areas of especially high traffic, severely pot-holed roads, etc.
> > >
> > > Me and the sweetie were talking about this last night - does anyone
> > >offer
> > >classes or guidelines on how to ride safely in traffic? This might be a
> > >great project for MassBike, and I bet there is grant money for it
> > >somewhere.
> > >A lot of it boils down to "when in doubt - take the lane" but I'm sure
> > >there
> > >could and would be more to it than that. The sweetie has done a lot less
> > >city riding than me so she ends up asking me for survival tips a lot. I
> > >bet
> > >a lot of people are in a similar situation and a well promoted class would
> > >help avoid accidents like this one.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe Massbike could compile a list of known, dangerous streets for
> > > > bicyclist to avoid, or at least be aware of. That would be the best
> > >help
> > > > they could give for now. We have a wealth of knowledge here that needs
> > >to
> > > > be dispersed before another tragedy occurs. I took Massbike's safe
> > >biking
> > > > course but found their insistence that city biking is safe a little
> > > > detached from reality. Bicycle safety is not as simple or easy as
> > > > following a few road rules. Not acknowledging this is very
> > >irresponsible.
> > > > We don't need to let another person to find out the hard way which
> > > > streets are unsafe.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> End of Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 34, Issue 28
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