[*BCM*] Longfellow / Cambridge Bike Police

Rob Arnold rsarnold at gmail.com
Wed Jul 30 16:16:47 EDT 2008 

Anne, it's a bike listserv. Do you really expect people to side with
sweeping bike enforcement measures without seeing any kind of parallel
increase in enforcement against motorized vehicles? I don't think it's bad
to ticket cyclists. I've been ticketed, and I've paid my tickets. I'd just
like to see cops standing around in Central Square handing out tickets to
everybody who double-parks in the bike lane as well.

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Anne Wolfe <goannego at gmail.com> wrote:

> So how many days and at how many points are road laws being enforced
> against cyclists, vs against cars?  Grab whatever statistics you can, and
> I'll bet that the percentage is negligible for enforcement against cyclists.
>
>
> 2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <rsarnold at gmail.com>
>
>> The point is percentages. Enforcement that matches the severity of the
>> offense. Don't ignore bike infractions. But increase enforcement all around
>> so that the ramping up of traffic enforcement, along with its benefits, is
>> felt much more widely.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Anne Wolfe <goannego at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And the number of people ticketed for vehicular offenses far exceeds the
>>> number of people killed/injured by or more importantly ON bikes.  What's
>>> your point?  That violations of the law should be ignored entirely and
>>> forever unless full parity can be guaranteed at all levels?  If you want to
>>> fund that level of police state you're perfectly free to do so but at this
>>> point the "don't ticket me, look at those people over there..." just smacks
>>> of getting caught and not wanting to take responsibility;
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <rsarnold at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, the number of people killed/injured by cars far exceed the
>>>> number of people killed/injured by bikes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Anne Wolfe <goannego at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cyclists who run red lights are at greater risk of potential harm as
>>>>> when they're struck by oncoming traffic they have nothing to protect them.
>>>>> Unlike, say, being in a car which is struck.  Screw property damage, let's
>>>>> talk serious personal injury.  And about the fastest way to get stopped by a
>>>>> cop is to run a red light in a car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cars that run red lights are considered so serious that in many states
>>>>> and countries, they are automatically photographed and issued with penalty
>>>>> points.  No cops even required.  This has certainly had the effect of
>>>>> substantially reducing the running of red lights by cars.  Now, if only
>>>>> cyclists would learn as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> People's most common complaints about cyclists?  Seems to be the
>>>>> running of red lights.  That Newsweek article's common theme?  Running red
>>>>> lights (including the guy who picked up his bike and RAN through the red
>>>>> light.  The red lights are a big deal.  Put your big girl panties on and
>>>>> learn to deal with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <rsarnold at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of percentages, I wonder what percentage of property damage
>>>>>> are responsible by cars versus bikes? Or personal injuries? Or deaths? The
>>>>>> enforcement should be proportional to the potential harm. I'm guessing it
>>>>>> isn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Anne Wolfe <goannego at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at it in terms of percentages.  What percentage of traffic
>>>>>>> violations (and/or police time) in Cambridge are given to cars?  What
>>>>>>> percentage are given to bikes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to complain about non-enforcement of traffic laws against
>>>>>>> vehicles, the time to do it is not during grumbling for being caught running
>>>>>>> a red light.  Because of course, while you might think it is safer, traffic
>>>>>>> and pedestrians coming the other way may well disagree when you hit them.
>>>>>>> Or they hit you.  Etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've seen a lot more cyclists in my day fail to signal a turn than
>>>>>>> drivers.  And I've seen a whole lot of drivers fail to signal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an aside, I just noticed this on Newsweek.  Feeding in with the
>>>>>>> Seattle and NYC issues, non-law abiding bikers are in for considerably more
>>>>>>> crackdowns everywhere it seems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.newsweek.com/id/149224
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2008/7/30 Charvak Karpe <charvak at alum.mit.edu>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I've been stopped by the Cambridge bike cops for running the 77
>>>>>>>> Mass Ave light.  They only gave me a warning and told me that
>>>>>>>> they'll
>>>>>>>> be around town and I should stop the next time I see them so they
>>>>>>>> don't write me a ticket.  It's one more thing to be alert for,
>>>>>>>> distracting me from dodging cars.  I was polite, but I did ask why
>>>>>>>> they don't do something more useful like ticket people for not using
>>>>>>>> turn signals.  They claimed that they write tickets for that too and
>>>>>>>> enforce all laws.  They thanked me for being green and "helping
>>>>>>>> mother
>>>>>>>> earth".  I thanked them for the warning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I had time, I'd demand statistics of how many tickets the City of
>>>>>>>> Cambridge has issued for failure to use turn signals and carry that
>>>>>>>> with me for the next time I see them.  Has anyone heard of someone
>>>>>>>> getting a ticket for turning without signalling?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not their fault that they've been assigned the bicycle
>>>>>>>> enforcement shift, so the best they can do is hand out a bunch of
>>>>>>>> warnings.  We should be nice to those guys.  One might expect the
>>>>>>>> police to do useful things like track down stolen property or stop
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> ask questions when they see a bike lock being cut instead of writing
>>>>>>>> bike tickets, but at least they're not pushing us off the bikes.
>>>>>>>> Sarcasm aside, police presence does help keep drivers tamer than
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> would be otherwise.  And although they vary as much as any group of
>>>>>>>> people, most of them are pretty nice if you're nice to them and
>>>>>>>> respectful of their authority.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agreed about the hypocrisy of these bicycle traps.  Just this
>>>>>>>> morning, at
>>>>>>>> that very location, I was right behind a rider who was fined for
>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>> the light ahead of me.  With the reputation that Boston motorists
>>>>>>>> have, I
>>>>>>>> can't help but feel they have much bigger fish to fry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, I have to say that last Friday (in the afternoon, following
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> police-supported Bike Friday event that I attended) I was told by a
>>>>>>>> cop to
>>>>>>>> go if I saw a chance through the busy intersection.  It was "the
>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>> they could do" because I was "sparing us all the gas."  He was a
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> nice guy, and if I'd had the time, I'd have grabbed his badge number
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> commended him (leaving out the law breaking part of course) to his
>>>>>>>> department.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> James David Morgan
>>>>>>>> Co-Founder and Designer
>>>>>>>> The Groundswell Collective
>>>>>>>> http://www.groundswellcollective.com/
>>>>>>>> http://blog.groundswellcollective.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jon Ramos wrote:
>>>>>>>> Speaking of the area near the Longfellow Bridge....
>>>>>>>> There have been an increasing number of bike police traps in
>>>>>>>> Cambridgelately.? I have noticed that they are spread out along my
>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>> at different locations, but they seem to always be at least one cop
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> intersection of Broadway & Main Street in Cambridge (just before the
>>>>>>>> Longfellow).? I have watched other cyclist get stopped and ticketed
>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>> times, usually when crossing with the pedestrian walk signal when
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> lights are red.
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> Here is a map of the spot:?
>>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=Broadway+%4042.362770,+-71.084582&daddr=42.361977,-71.082423&hl=en&geocode=12899578198328372370,42.362770,-71.084582%3B6747366231024457007,42.362270,-71.083680&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=17&sll=42.362008,-71.082627&sspn=0.003623,0.006748&ie=UTF8&ll=42.363047,-71.08283&spn=0.014491,0.043302&z=15
>>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>> (In my opinion) I think it is good for the police to stop cyclists
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blasting through a red light, but I personally think it is safer to
>>>>>>>> cross
>>>>>>>> that particular intersection with the pedestrian signal vs. waiting
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the green and battling for a safe spot with the cars.
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> I also think it is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS that the bike police at
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> intersection do NOTHING about all of the shuttles, taxis, large
>>>>>>>> trucks,
>>>>>>>> and cars that are parked in the bike lane less than 50 yards east
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> where the cops are handing out tickets to cyclists.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>>>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Anne M. Wolfe, LL.M.
>>>>>>> Mobile: ( 07805) 456901
>>>>>>> "If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek
>>>>>>> shelter and cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>>>>> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Anne M. Wolfe, LL.M.
>>>>> Mobile: ( 07805) 456901
>>>>> "If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter
>>>>> and cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>>>> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anne M. Wolfe, LL.M.
>>> Mobile: ( 07805) 456901
>>> "If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter
>>> and cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Anne M. Wolfe, LL.M.
> Mobile: ( 07805) 456901
> "If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and
> cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
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